| Weekend Review - Photo Highlights |
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| Written by Paul Fladten | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Monday, 29 June 2009 15:58 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 While there were no actual fights over the weekend, Saturday was jam-packed with different mixed martial arts events throughout the state. From a Black-Belt seminar to a video game tournament, there were plenty of MMA events to choose from.
The first event that took place was the WCS Open Mat at Matamoros gym. The free training session had a great turnout of roughly 50 competitors, including fighters such as Jameel Massouh, Brian Geraghty, and Ryan Williams.
The combination of warm sunshine and a vigorous workout caused nearly everyone in attendance to work up a good sweat. One person said that, "it looked like everyone had jumped in a pool with their gear on."
The open mat was the sixth in a series of twelve, and the next one will be held on July 25th, at Neutral Ground North in Grafton.
The second part of Saturday's action was a seminar that was held at Gracie Barra in Kenosha. The seminar lasted roughly four hours and was hosted by black belt Brian Davis.
During the four hour seminar, Davis passed on some of his knowledge to the 25 or so people in attendance. One technique that Davis taught the group was an armbar setup that he had previously used to perfection in order to beat a Heavyweight Pan Am's champion.
As the seminar concluded, many of the students received stripes on their belts and food and cake were served afterwards. But the highlight of the entire seminar was Dave Rosenmarkle being awarded his black belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Rosenmarkle is now just the 5th Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Black Belt in Wisconsin.
Also on Saturday afternoon, Combat Corner Fight Shop held its first ever UFC Undisputed video game tournament. The grand champion was decided as Tim Ager used "Sugar" Rashad Evans to defeat Weston Beske and earn the grand prize of a $150 gift card.
Along with Ager and Beske, a few of Wisconsin's biggest MMA personalities were present for the event. Eric "Red" Schafer and Omar Choudhury were both eliminated in the first round of the Xbox 360 bracket, while Reese "Old Man" Shaner and Jason "Bacon" Hutter cheered on their Waukesha MMA training-partner, Beske.
Throughout the tournament, Hutter literally worked Beske's corner by wiping him off with a towel and giving him water between rounds. Schafer also kept the 20 or so in attendance laughing by joking that Shaner would have been able to win the tournament if the game of choice was Pong rather than UFC Undisputed.
The day featured two different single-elimination tournaments, one which used the Playstation 3 console, while the other was held on the Xbox 360 system. The winners of the two tournaments, Beske and Ager, were pitted against each other in the final match to determine the day's grand champion.
Ager, a 23-year-old Valparaiso law student who trains at Agallar Combative Systems, chose fighter Rashad Evans while Beske selected Forrest Griffin for the final bout. Ager used his dominant ground and pound to secure a TKO victory in the fifth round and to collect the $150 prize.
The WCS Open Mat, Gracie Barra Black Belt Seminar, and the UFC Undisputed video game tournament were a few great ways for people to get their fill of combat sports over the weekend.
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Comments (74)
MadCityChad
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... Ya'll dodged a bullet with MadCityChad missing from the Undisputed tourney field. If there is another tourney, I'll be there. P.S. I'll challenge the "Old Man" any day to a pong match. Bring it on! |
Red_Ager
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... Whatever you say MadCityChad. If Combat Corner wants to setup a try to beat the reigning champ before he moves competition (moving on Aug 1st) they can and I'll gladly be there to defend. Thanks to Combat Corner for putting that on it was a lot of fun. Thanks to Matamoros' for the open mat And lastly congrats to Dave on his black belt! |
Fake BB alert!
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WCS does no research! That faker is full of shit and WCS is covering for him. Paying for a black belt does not make you one. |
Groundfighter
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Still Tapped out and Fake BB Alert STO - Dinner is not such a bad idea really. Dave is a nice enough guy, has good manners and might even go dutch with you.  FakeBBalert - I agree 0. If a guy walks in to a store and buys a BB, he is just the owner of a BB right. But when a professor travels to his students school to award him the belt he has earned, anything said other than congratulations or good job, is not only offensive to the new BB but its offensive to his professor and their a*sociation as a whole. Total/partial ignorance or envy is no excuse for bad form and anonymous posting..that is unless your under 18...... |
DUnit!
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... yeah, buying a black belt is not earning one. however, earning a black belt in bjj after putting in almost a decade of hard work through coaching, competing, and always staying loyal to the game, regardless of a world of adversity(ie; raising a family, being in the military, being broke, constant moving) certainly counts in my book as "being earned". get off the computer and put your money where your mouth is you f**king tool bag. |
jihad
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... how the f**k do you buy a blackbelt when you've been teaching for years? are you f**king retarded? forum trolls are awesome. |
DUnit!
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... clearly you enjoy the "cak", as well as jerking off on forums all day instead of actually training. how is your sponsorship with iwishicouldbeafighter.com going? |
DUnit!
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... oh yeah, all forum douche bags aside, congrats to my buddy red for owning it on the 360. best of luck at law school man. |
Copper
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... Fake BB Alert you are an idot. Oh My God?! Fake Black Belt?! Are you smoking crack? Rosenmarkle has been training day in and day out for 8 years all over this God forsaken planet. Hes listed under graciebarra.com as a certified professor of BJJ. He was presented his black belt from Professor Brian Davis in front of 30 of us, who is.. none other than a Gracie Black Belt.. So take your BS statements and shove them, or better yet. Come into Gracie Barra and challenge his black belt status. MORON! Hell I'll even pay for your membership for a month! Its guys like you that sit on their fat behind playing world of warcraft telling their online buddies about how bad of a fighter they are. I bet you have never even set foot on the mat, of if you did let me guess...It just didnt work out.. right? |
Chris Geraghty
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I agree with Fake BB! If you dont like it, to f**king bad. This is just another McDojo with just another McDojo black belt. I'm not hiding behind anything or anyone, you all know who I am and where to find me. I don't know who Fake BB is but he and I are not the only ones who feel this way! Oh, by the way, I can list on a website that I'm a proffesor too. Does that make it so? Roll with him and any of his students and then come tell me how great they are! I know who the real grapplers are in this state. |
semicolon
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... LOL Of Course someone from Stra*ser's would badmouth another camp. Have they had a single article on here promoting either ACS or Gracie that doesn't end up with someone trolling or one of the Stra*ser guys calling people out? Let shit die, God. |
The Ring Announcer
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... Stra*ser's guy? Know what your talking about before you post. I do not trane BJJ, nor have I ever. But, I do know a McDojo when I see one. |
Nate
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... I can't say that I've ever met or rolled with Dave but I've only heard good things from my teammates who have so I'll take their word for it. The guy got his BJJ black belt under one of the most respected BJJ programs in the world, Gracie Barra. The same affiliation that routinely produces world champion BJJ players. His lineage can also be traced back up the BJJ heirarchy. It's a legitimate blackbelt whether a couple of keyboard warriors who've never trained BJJ want to admit it or not. Nobody's ever questioned Stra*ser's gym or called it a McDojo when his fighters have gotten their a*ses handed to them on national television. The WCS community has always supported it's own and will continue to do so in the future, win or lose and in glory and defeat. Whores trying to make a buck off the sport like yourself need to show some respect to the athletes, because without them you're nothing. |
The Ring Announcer
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... Nate, ignorant a*ses like you should be thanking me for even having a forum like this to spew your retarded statements. If people like me had not been working their a*ses off for the past 10 years in this state with BJJ and MMA, you would still be telling people how great your TKD is. And once again, I dont train with Stra*ser, I dont live near Stra*ser, I dont defend Stra*ser, if I speak to him once every other month, its a lot. What does Stra*ser have to do with this paper professor? The only person that matters to me that has anything to do still with Stra*ser is my little brother. I just laugh at the thought of this paper professor and all of his student thinking they have and will contribute. Fighters pay attention, NATE here, has just bashed you and your friends! To the fighters that made it to the big show, congratulations and thank you for helping out the sport here in Wisconsin and all your hard work to get that far. Nate, stick to what you know, nothing but the internet! |
Redford
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... Ignore this loser^^^ What the f**k does he know about BJJ? I've been training BJJ non-stop from 1996 here in WI and am excited to see some more guys get ranked. Congrats to Dave and the guys at Gracie Barra! Keep up the hard work! |
Get ur Goat
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The Ring announcer Well that explains it. Fat guy in a little coat, watches fights, but in his infinite wisdom and experiance, can recognize a "Mcdojo". Wow. Smells like vinegar to me. Maybe he should have went to the GB place to see for himself? |
Get ur Goat
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Part 2 and honestly, I think we should all cut Chris Geraghty a little slack. It was probably had to type all that one handed with his mouth full. |
The Ring Announcer
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... f**k all of you. Once again, if you dont like what I have to say, too bad. Red, I have have never once said a bad word about you so thanks for the name calling! f**k you too!! You did prove my point for me though. 1996-2009 to get your hard earned BB. Paying for a BB takes a lot less time! Gracie Barra is a joke and gives belts to the highest bidder to spread their schools around. Goat, nice insult! I do have infinate wisdom on this sport like it or not. Maybe some of you should watch more than talk and you might learn something about the business of this sport. |
Redford
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... Why are you trying to shit in Dave's cereal? When a Gracie Barra guy like Brian Davis gives a black belt I respect it. What do you know about BJJ? Do you even train? Everyone else is cool. The best BJJer in th state, Scott Huston (Brown Belt Pan Am champ this year) told him congrats. So why are you being a d**k? I worked hard and earned mine in 12 years, and everyday I still don't think I deserve it, so I wanna keep getting better in order to some day feel like I earned it. I am sure Dave will do the same. |
The Ring Announcer
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... A: The best BJJer in the state is Tom. B: I don't care who congratulated him, you have all been deceived. C: I never insulted YOU or YOUR BB. D: You prved my piont once again, 12 years of blood sweat and tears and YOU still feel like YOU don't deserve it. E: Prove me wrong! F: Goat, using the same insult 3 times means you need to get back on the short bus. Get some new relevant material or get back to your moms basement. G: Since when does training in BJJ mean your an expert? I have seen more fights live, and been to more NAGAs to observe more than most people in this country. H: Do I compete, no! Do I know what the f**k I'm talking about, YEP!!! |
Redford
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... So, you don't train or compete in BJJ, aren't part of an a*sociation, have no rank, but you've been to NAGAs? Well, that would definitely make your commentary on Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu rankings very important, haha... Tom is also one of the best BJJ competitors in the state (Silver Medal in the Brown Belt at same Pan Ams as Scott), and he didn't want or think he deserved a Brown Belt when he got his either. I don't get what that has to do with your points on Dave. Rankings reflect knowledge and dedication to BJJ, not necessarily your competition level. Dr. Tim Westlake does not even compete, yet he is an honored Black Belt. I have way more competition experience, yet Tim is still more knowledgeable than me (and the last guy to choke me the heck out). Does he not deserve his BB, because Tom is a better competitor? |
jbmassouh
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... I'm more than a little disapointed that people think Stra**er's guys troll evey other gym out there on WCS. That gym is my family a*s far as I'm concerned and I've trained under Dave for 5 years and I don't do a lot of talking, my fighting does it for me, win or lose. So if people do end up trolling other gyms on here, don't be so hasty to blame our guys. Thanks and nothing but respect. |
Dom
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... I'm in full support of Chris Geraghty's freedom to call things into question and speak freely, but, this, ladies and gentlemen, is what you call a meltdown. In the words of Joe Rogan, "Woooowwww!" |
The Ring Announcer
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... I dont know Red, does Tom deserve one? Apparenlty I don't know jack shit even though you pretty much back up everything I have said here yet are still insulting me. My points on Dave are on the rise of paid for BBs just so more Gracie Barra schools can pop up. Red, roll with Dave and then you tell me, is he a black belt? Compare him to these people we have been talking so highly about including yourself and you tell me. I already know the answer because I have seen him roll and fight, but I will wait for your a*sesment. If you can honestly tell me I'm full of shit after rolling with this guy I will write a full article dedicated to apologizing for what I have said here today. |
Redford
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... There are a lot of great BJJ schools (Twisted Fitness, Third Heaven, FVGC, NG, etc) and lots of great MMA teams (Stra*ser's, Serrano's, Chosen Few, Duke's, etc). Despite some big rivalries; I always root for the WI fighters at fights and grappling tournaments. Some times we win, and sometimes we lose, but props to anyone for stepping into the arena. Not all gym's are equal, but like any business out there, you don't have to support them. The only time I get upset is when a guy makes false claims (like this Walker douche). There are some great and not-so-great competitors and teachers, but I have respect for most gyms out there. Once again, competition ability isn't a reflection of fighting knowledge. Some of the best competitor's could not teach to save their lives, while some of the most articulate instructors are not great at sparring. Personally I would rather learn from a great instructor, not necessarily a world champion. Hell, an All-American wrestler with a few months of BJJ can probably tear up most BJJ guys, but that don't make the ranked higher. I got tapped by a 150 lb white-belt yesterday, does that mean I don't deserve mine? Dave has been training BJJ for years with one of the best a*sociations in the sport, and after years of being a brown belt, he recieved his Black Belt. What more is there to say? You don't like him, then fine, but don't be rude on overall positive thread with no evidence more than "he bought his BB". If a Gracie Barra rep, or some legit BJJ insructor has some fact-supported beef, then fine. But when some one who does not even train BJJ or have ANYTHING to do with BJJ, comes on here and makes serious claims on BJJ rankings, then that is some complete and utter BS... |
Redford
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... P.S. Of course Tom deserves his Brown Belt. Dude is one of the best browns in the country. And the most important reason that he deserves one (by far) is that his instructor awarded him one. Henry, Jon, Dave, Tim, and me all were given one by someone much better than us. When Scott, Tom, Mark, Justin, Bill, etc. get their BBs they will also deserve them. Why? Because their qualified instructors' decided so... |
Get ur Goat
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Total Troll Thats what this has to be, just a troll to see how many people a non training, non competing guy who obviously has had his a$$ handed to him to many times to count, living the the shadow of his brother, wishing his last name was Buffer, yet lacks talent enough to perform the simple task of announcing fights as well as a drunken crackhead. Guys, let him rant about whatever he likes. Who even knew who this piss poor self promoter was before he posted on this thread trying to discredit a legit man. He's nothing more than another attention wh0re looking to see how many folks he can stir up in between his jaking sessions to his posters of the Buffer brothers. Let him be and just post your congrats to the new BB. If you ignore a pest long enough, it will just go away. Chris, your right, the new material was a great idea. But I think instead of my moms basement, I will head on over and hang out in your moms back door for a while...same place your dad should have dumped the load that became you. what a bottle of stale jiz you are. |
The Ring Announcer
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... I just got off of the phone with Brian Davis from Gracie Barra. We had a fantastic conversation about Gracie Barra, BJJ, and this situation here. My whole point in agreeing with the original (Fake BB) poster was that I didnt feel Dave was a legit Black Belt. This was based on witnessing him compete, and then comparing him to other purple, brown, and black belts I have seen throughout the years. My ways of thinking about BBs was in an almost untouchable way. Kind of old school. It meant he was the best of the best, the only other competition were other very untouchable BBs. One thing Brian explained to me was that as BJJ has evolved so has the BB and the way BBs are promoted. He used the example of rating a BB 1-5. He might have a BB thats a 5 who would fall under that untouchable category, or, he might have a BB that is a 1 or a 2 that is newer to the belt, still has a lot to learn, and is still being watched on how he teaches, competes, and compares with his counterparts. Should he ever be challenged by a purple or brown belt, no, but he should be able to compete and compare with other black belts. Brian said that this was the first BB he has promoted but he felt in his opinion that Dave was ready for the next step. He also said that he will use Dave as an example for his future promoting of BBs. If Dave does well, keeps moving forword and competes well at a BB level, it will justify the way he promotes. If not, he might have to become a "belt nazi". In conclusion, I might have been looking at the belt system in an old and possibly dead way, but I still whole heartedly believe what I saw was not even close to BB level. I also want to apologize for agreeing with the "paid for" belt system. Brian a*sured me that nothing like that happened here. Red, I am still disapointed with you resorting to calling me a loser. I nevr once have said anything negative about you.( Other than the FU in responce to the loser thing that is.) Goat, I understand your pantys were twisted up by the things I said, but living in my brothers shadow? It is apparent you dont know me or my brother. Oh, by the way, I, with maybe Joe Martinez as the only other, am the best announcer in the sport. I know you wish you could be that good at something, but dispite what your parents told you, you will never amount to anything! Nice try, next. |
The Ring Announcer
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... I also forgot to add that Brian did agree that fake schools using the GB name have been a big problem but that they are working hard to finish weeding all of them out. I had experience with some of these fakers out east. |
The Ring Announcer
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... After I was called a whore trying to make money off of the sport. What would you have said? |
Redford
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... You are disappointed in me? You are the one who came on this page that is congratulating Dave on his Black Belt, with NO knowledge of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu ranking beyond a mystic "untouchable" idea of what a Black Belt is, and insulted him and his school. I must have forgot that the black belts from the 90's were untouchable, never lose, and shoot fireballs from their eyes. That was BS and that is why I called you a loser... You never trained BJJ, never competed in BJJ, have no rank, never ranked anyone, don't belong to an a*sociation, but your opinion matters when it comes to BJJ rank??? I have trained with blackbelts, world champions, Americans, Brazilians, guys from Gracie Barra, Brasa, Alliance, ATT, BTT, Cobra Kai, 10th Planet, etc. NO ONE is untouchable and NO ONE ever was. Black belts lose to lower ranked guys everyday. I tap out to lower belts (and no belts) all the time. I am not the best and never will be, but it pisses me off when a BJJ nobody spouts off like a no-it-all a*shole telling us who he thinks deserves BJJ ranks. They say that getting a Black Belt is the beginning of your jiu-jitsu journey, not the end... |
The Ring Announcer
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... Say what you want about who you train with. Who gives a f**k? I doesnt change what I know or my opinion. And if you get tapped by white belts and no belts than thats your problem. Once again, saying I have no knowledge is just ignorant. Its like saying you dont know what makes a good NFL running back because you never played the position. I played baseball for 21 years before I tore my rotator cuff. So by your definition, I should be in the hall of fame due to years put in and games I've played. All you have done here is talk about how many hours and years you trained, and how many great people you have trained with, how everyone can still tap you. Yet no one even questioned what you are or do. And no one on here has said a word about Dave's actual grappling ability. You just keep spouting off about how many years he trained. You obviously know my opinion hold some validity or you wouldnt be so butt-hurt about it. You have been defending yourself more than Dave when nobodys attacked you. At least you could have come on here and told everyone how great he is at BJJ, yet you havent. Bottom line is this, unlike you I dont question myself. I know what I've done, what I know, who I've helped, and that some of the things I have done in the past years have helped shape BJJ and MMA in this state. I will also continue to call out injustices, and other bullshit that I see. As of now this argument, at least from my side, is over. p.s. If everyone agreed with you, you and Goat wouldnt be the only ones on here defending him. What does that mean to you? |
Redford
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... You helped shape BJJ in Wisconsin??? Sweet baby Jesus, you are more full of yourself than anybody guessed. The BJJ pioneers in this state would laugh their a*ses off. I don't know of a single thing you have done for the BJJ community. Guys like Henry Matamoros, Bill Krieg, Justin Morris, Jon Hinds, Mark Plavcan, Ben Salas, and many other shaped BJJ in this state, not you. |
lukey dukey
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i agree congrats the dave on his BB. the guys that i have trainned with from GB are all pretty damn good. i have never rolled with dave, but when there are only 5 BB in all of WI, even if you are the worst BB there is, youre still a beast. ill never be a BB,and i doubt there will be double digit BBs in WI for the next 10 years. best of luck to team gracie |
Unbreakable Heavy Hitter
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... Hey can someone out there show me the right way to use a arm bar? I dont care if you are a purple belt, a black belt, a orange belt, though I might care a little if you are a pink belt. Can anyone help me??? And you guys need to play nice before I tell mom.  |
Nate
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... Chris – Thanks for providing me with this forum to spew my retarded statements as you state. Maybe later I’ll actually get around to thanking the people that actually built the site and it’s following. I’m ignorant? I actually was able to compose an argument articulating my views on the subject rather than using “f**k all of you” as a rebuttal. Worked your a*s off for the last ten years building the scene. Please. Your contributions to this site have been minimal at best and usually negative. I’ve never heard a single person praise all the great things you’ve done in the past building the Wisconsin MMA or BJJ scene. You talk about the many things you’ve done to shape it but haven’t listed anything. I a*sume because you post on the “Wisconsin BJJ Growing Strong” thread you consider that to be some sort of contribution to the advancement of BJJ in Wisconsin. Get real. You act as though you’re some sort of pioneer in the sport. In addition, you also stated that you think you’re best ring announcer in the game. Do you really expect anyone to take a statement like that seriously? You sound like a Santa Claus at Christmas time when you announce. You also started a series of articles called, “My Opinion Matters” where you portray yourself as all knowing; some sort of crusader of justice, only stop after the first week, despite a*signing homework. I doubt judging by these posts, that you came to the realization that no one gives a rat’s a*s what your opinion is. You don’t hold any special knowledge. That propaganda piece was a pile of horseshit as is your argument here. You’re completely and utterly delusional about your self worth and knowledge to the point it’s almost frightening. When I mentioned Stra*ser’s gym it had to do with your brother. I figured you didn’t pick up on that. Despite losing his fights in the UFC we still remained fans of his, didn’t bad mouth him or his abilities, or call that gym a McDojo because he lost in one-sided affairs. All the guys who get to the big show get unconditional support from me regardless of what school they attend. Nobody pissed on him like your attempting to do to Dave. And for what? I don’t care if you have an agenda, a lot of people do, but at least be man enough to fess up and say so. You’re mad at Red because he actually called you out on your bullshit. The “good ole boys” club doesn’t exist over here. It might over on the underground thread you should go back to, but not here. Over here, you’re just the conceited know-it-all guy who doesn’t respect anyone and thinks he’s larger than life. I wouldn’t doubt if every BJJ black belt in the state is laughing at you making a fool of yourself on this comment thread. You almost managed to pull a half-a*s apology out of your hat earlier, which I might add would be quite a feat to see from such an egotistical prick like yourself. To even attempt to have a debate with you is useless and a waste of time so I’m not going to bother even attempting. You should actually start jiu-jitsu. You’d actually learn a thing or two about the sport, but most of all you’d learn some humility, a trait we both could use some work on. |
luke
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... who needs days of our lives.... I'm just gunna follow this thread!!  jk, had to say it. ok, i'll shut up now. |
Dom
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... 1) Luke: Shut up 2) James: I'll teach you what I know about the arm bar if you teach me how to hit motherf**kers so hard they ask you the same question five times later that night. |
The Ring Announcer
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... I really feel bad for Dave at this point. Instead of someone stepping up and defending him in a healthy debate on a forum designed for that, 2 of Mil-towns finest decide that making fun of me and attacking my personality is the way to argue. Mensa members only I guess. Sorry forum members, I tried to make this exciting but instead the brothers decided they wanted to show everyone how big their d**ks were. |
Ryan "MF'n" Williams
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... If a legit black belt from a legit a*sociation gives someone a black belt they are a black belt, end of story. Chris I don't know you, I know your brother, but I don't know you. You come off as someone who had something personal against Dave, who I also don't know. However, I do know that I have never heard your name in the Jiu Jitsu world, let alone the Wisconsin BJJ world. I have never heard anything about you furthering BJJ in Wisconsin or any state. Maybe you should enlighten me/us because right now you sound ridiculous. BTW, BJJ and MMA are not the same thing maybe that will clear up some confusion. As far as I am concerned if you do not train BJJ (BJJ not sub grappling), you don't understand there are differences at every belt between players. There are pure athletically gifted individuals that torture people on the mat who earn their black belt through trial by fire but couldn't teach to save their lives. There are technicians who never compete, but could show you a simple grip that changes your game, who put a decade plus into learning the art, however never competes. Does that make his contributions any less important than that competitor? If we only had competitive BJJ Players who would teach? We all like to think we could do it all but we all can't. In order for the art to live and grow we need both type of practitioner. We need the guy who can dedicate himself to furthering the art through the pa*sing of knowledge, we need the guy who tears up the mat and bring attention to the sport through their prowess. For anyone to call out Dave and question his black belt without explicit proof that it wasn't real is low cla*s. If you can't prove he didn't work hard, or put in his time, then you are wrong for putting it out on a public forum when you didn't have all the facts. In the end what matters is that Gracie Barra/Brian Davis awarded him his BB and his students receive value from his teachings. Now no one call the police for me expressing my opinions and thanks for deleting my account d**kS! |
Groundfighter
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Clarification and final post on the subject. 1 First and foremost. Dave Rosenmarkle earned his Black Belt the old fashioned way. Through hard work, dedication, sacrifice and perseverance. It was earned not bought, heck I even provided the belt as I do with all my students. Now there seems to have been some miscommuncation taken away from me and Chris' conversation yesterday afternoon, or it may just be the way I read it, but I will make it crystal clear in the event that there any doubts or questions remaining on the matter. 1. "He used the example of rating a BB 1-5. He might have a BB thats a 5 who would fall under that untouchable category, or, he might have a BB that is a 1 or a 2 that is newer to the belt, still has a lot to learn, and is still being watched on how he teaches, competes, and compares with his counterparts" -When I gave and example of rating Black Belts on a 1-5, I included World Cla*s Black Belts like Flavio Almeida and Roger Gracie. I also said Dave would Rank in the 2.5-3 range with those kids of guys. I kept it modest because that's what sets us apart from the c**ky and arrogant. He would not be challenged by a purple or brown belt at this level, and will not have any problems competing at the black belt level. |
Groundfighter
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Clarification and final post on the subject. 2 2. "My ways of thinking about BBs was in an almost untouchable way. Kind of old school. It meant he was the best of the best, the only other competition were other very untouchable BBs. One thing Brian explained to me was that as BJJ has evolved so has the BB and the way BBs are promoted." - No BB is untouchable, not have they ever been. This is a fallacy built around they way things appeared over a decade or more ago. When the sport was still new to most and black belts were fewer and all Brazilian. They came to schools for seminars and balled up all the people in attendance, one after another, because no body had seen this kind of fighting before and became eager to learn. I was guilty of this once upon a time, until my first trip to Brazil in 2002 and was able to catch a couple of brown and black belts in submissions, as a blue belt, only to be smiled at and told good job. Sure the punishment that ensued afterward was relentless, but everyone gets caught. The point is, BJJ as a whole has evolved, and everyone gets better, the instructions improves then so do the students. Black belts are promoted the same way they always have been. Based on Technique, Ability and time on the mat. Only now, people are staying with the same instructor or a*sociation instead of jumping from on the another. In the past, many students did not get to train directly with their professor. The attended seminars or brought him in for a seminar, both of which involved alot of cash exchange. This was very common years ago and instructors realized that by prolonging promotions meant more seminars more private trainings and more cash. I am not saying all, but many were guilty of this. That also meant that instructors we not there to see to their students progression on a daily basis, if they even trained every day. So promotions were fewer and farther between as the instructor returned to fix all the bad habits the guys were forming in his absence. IT was not uncommon to see a guy train for 10, 12 even 15 years before earning his black belt. And if a student thought, for whatever reason it was in his best interest to change instructors or organizations, well you could tack on another couple of years, as the new instructor builds a report, trusting relationship and net worth with the aforementioned matrix. It may not have been the 0 right way to do things, but that's the way it was. Some instructors and organizations still use this "Motivation" to increase their student count, a*sociation membership and net worth, but you will not find that in Gracie Barra. There are more black belts now and it is easier to find quality instruction more readily available on a daily basis, so plan to see those years from white to black get shaved down considerably in the future. |
Groundfighter
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Clarification and final post on the subject. 3 3. "Brian said that this was the first BB he has promoted but he felt in his opinion that Dave was ready for the next step. He also said that he will use Dave as an example for his future promoting of BBs. If Dave does well, keeps moving forword and competes well at a BB level, it will justify the way he promotes. If not, he might have to become a "belt nazi"." What I said was that Dave, not only in my opinion, but approved by Professors Marcio Feitosa, Flavio Almeida, Master Carlos Gracie Jr and the Gracie Barra a*sociation, was more that qualified, technically proficient and able to have earned his black belt. Of my four brown belts, Dave was the most technically superior. He earned his black belt just the same as every other legitimate black belt has. I am not some "Mad Scientist" of Jiu Jitsu testing the ingredients for success. "Hmmm, take one gi, a dash of technique, a sprinkle of aggression and top it off with a black belt, bake at 450 degrees" What I said was Dave will prove as a black belt his ability to compete at that level, and his teaching will show through his students as they should be a direct reflection of their instructor on the mat. If I did not have faith in his ability then I would have become a belt nazi or would if he were to just go out and get smashed by some purple or brown belt. But I know that that would never happen so its not an issue. He is exactly where he belongs. |
Groundfighter
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Clarification and final post on the subject. 4 4. "In conclusion, I might have been looking at the belt system in an old and possibly dead way, but I still whole heartedly believe what I saw was not even close to BB level." -In conclusion, I will say this. Dave is a remarkable instructor and a great competitor. He earned his black belt fair and square. I don't think it would be fair to form an opinion on any fighter, but especially on a performance from 18 months ago. (I did not bother to mention that Dave was fighting with separated ribs, as it would only seem like an excuse, and we generally have little use for those when we step on the mat to fight) Anyone who wishes to debate this is cordially invited to either call myself or Dave to ask your questions, or come visit either of our schools to discuss. (Note: if you choose to visit, bring your gi, if you do not train yet, choose to start learning, otherwise it's gonna be a long night.) Thanks to the guys at WCS for doing such a great job in promoting the sports of BJJ and MMA. If your ever looking for an unbiased moderator to help quell some of the nonsense that gets posted here, just give me a buzz. Brian Davis Gracie Barra //////////END OF THREAD////////////// |
The Ring Announcer
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... Ryan, I agree completely. My contributions are more for MMA and some of the fighters in WI not BJJ. In some cases, they do intersect though. Thats more what I was refering to. It is finaly nice to have people defending Dave without all of the name calling. Brian, I didnt want to mention the 1-5 rating you gave Dave because I didnt think it was right for him to hear it from me. I also tried to make it clear that you gave him his BB because in your expert opinion he earned it. My opinion only stems from seeing him in action twice on the same day. |
Redford
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... You don't know shit about BJJ in the first place and gave a opinion based on seeing him in action one day????? Wow, you are the biggest POS I have ever heard of. |
The Ring Announcer
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... As Dom says Joe Rogan says, WOW!!!!!!!!! Instead of defending your point, you name call, attack personaly, tell everybody how great YOU are and how hard YOU work, more name calling, reveal excelent little tidbits about how, even you, a BB, gets tapped by everyone, more name calling, and then round it all off with your a POS. Kudos my good man! |
Steve from GB
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... Wow is right. I just read through this page and am amazed. Why are you even talking to this guy? From what I am reading, we have a few black belts arguing with a guy that went to a few grappling tournaments. Why even waiste your time with this guy? Congrats Dave, from all the guys in green Bay. |
Kaz
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... First let me start off by saying CONGRATS TO Dave Rosenmarkle ON YOUR BLACK BELT! I like Red have been around this game for a very long time....and I've rolled with and competed with virtually everyone and anyone that wanted to step on the mat......sometimes I won and sometimes I lost. From my experience there is a lot more that goes into a BJJ BELT than just 'This one time I saw this guy roll and.......' If a legit black belt from a legit a*sociation gives someone a black belt they are a black belt, end of story. All this sideline armchair quarterbacking is just stupid.....Chris you can learn alot by watching, reading, and being a fan but you still lack the intangable experience of actually DOING the sport that I think qualifies someone to legitimately critique someones 'worthiness' to wear a BJJ BlackBelt. Did Dave hump an old girlfriend of yours back in the day........it's just seems like there is something else to this???? Again CONGRATS to Dave....I hope to have the opportunity to roll with you and learn from you in the near future! |
hey pot, you're black!
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... dude.... You can't call someone out for name calling when your first two posts on this thread said: "I do know a McDojo when I see one." "ignorant a*ses like you should be thanking me" "I just laugh at the thought of this paper professor" come on man |
lukey dukey
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wow haha pretty soon were gonna have that d**khead from the article about the guy who killed his dog on here. that guy knew how to argue the same 3 points over and over...amitures lol |
Redford
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... Still waiting on a single reason you are even talking about Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (beyond going to a few NAGAs, haha)... You come on here bad-mouthing a guy on a subject you have absolutely NO knowledge about, now you are all butt hurt that people are bad-mouthing you back? Wow, the "ironing"... |
sheepman6
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... on the lighter side i had a great time at henry's open mat all my students got to roll with henry which was the first time many of them got to roll with a BB and also got my a*s handed to me by brian geraghty which was great thanx to every one that showed up and whooped me reminds me why i started bjj in the first place |
Kaz
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...Nate, ignorant a*ses like you should be thanking me for even having a forum like this to spew your retarded statements. If people like me had not been working their a*ses off for the past 10 years in this state with BJJ and MMA, you would still be telling people how great your TKD is. I just noticed this little nugget of wisdom.........Chris last time I checked I need to thank guys like Gabe,Luke, Dome, Tyler, Perry and Nate for this site......and before this site was the WI BJJ Growing Strong thread that I'll thank Jason Schmitt for and Kirik for the creation and maintanance of that site. |
Redford
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... By working his a*s off in BJJ for the past 10 years he meant to write "watched to a few NAGAs" and by shaping BJJ in WI he meant to write "I have a brother who does it". This is either a complete troll job or this dude is schizophrenic. I also heard Mike Walker and him started the UFC in 1993 (20 years after Al Gore and him invented the internet). |
The Ring Announcer
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... Kaz, your welcome! Red, if over 500 live combat sports events, countless open mats all over the country, and over 10 different BJJ seminars means a few, then your right. How dare I go against the great and all knowing, Ravashing Red. But remember, I'm just an arm-chair quarterback! Oh, and why do you guys keep bringing up my brother? Running out of things to talk about? |
The Ring Announcer
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... I do not train nor have I ever. I have rolled many a times all over and only go off of what I see and what I've read. My skill set is no better than your worst student but I still know how to roll. |
The Ring Announcer
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... Its not training because its strictly for research to further my announcing, commentating, and writing career. I have no school, no teacher, no consistant partners. I'm not looking to improve, just to understand. That way, arm-chair quarterbacks like me can know what I'm talking about. You train in BJJ, I observe and experiment in BJJ. |
Kaz
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...if over 500 live combat sports events, countless open mats all over the country, and over 10 different BJJ seminars I have no school, no teacher, no consistant partners. So what you are saying is that you are a super fan????????? This guy was a super fan too, but I wouldn't listen to his opinion on whether or not Dave desearves a black belt either.........  Bottom line here is that The Ring Announcer and his cronies are wrong and the rest of us are correct.......accept it and move on.....Happy 4th of July!  |
The Ring Announcer
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... Kaz, you could never understand the dedication it takes and all the hours of hard work painting that on my chest before every show. Someone who doesnt train cant understand. You have no business posting an opinion on this matter. I have trained for 12 years with the greatest painters in the entire world. I still even get out-painted by first timers. Its an ever evolving skill that armchair quarterbacks like you try and comment on but in the end are just keyboard warriors. Ban this troll please! |
Fearless Goat
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Congrats Dave Congrats Dave I want to start off by saying I have never met Dave or train with him. I have heard many positive things about him and the team he has though. I have heard that he is a very nice guy that carries himself with dignity, honor, pride, respect, loyalty, and integrity..What does that sound like to you? Martial Arts...thats right. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is a martial art....there is more to a black belt than skill level. Dave is a guy that has trained very hard for a long time, has pa*sed knowledge on to several people, and is part of a great Jiu-Jitsu team. He lives every day to make his students better. To me there is more to a black belt than the skill level. Dave probably trains very hard every day just like most of us do, but maybe dont have the training partners that Red Schaefer, Jon Friedland, Matamoros, and others do. Dave in my mind is a black belt, but isnt maybe the same level as some of Wisconsin's first 4 black belts. So what? Who cares. With time Dave will be a beast like those 4 as well. Not every guy is going to be the same level. What people tend to forget is the belt means something special, and comes with hard work. If Dave didnt work hard he wouldnt have gotten it. I think Wisconsin needs to keep supporting their own and stop battling over stupid stuff. We have excellent fighters and grapplers all over the state, and ALL of the them should be supported. Dave getting his black belt should have been received with open arms BY ALL GYMS AND ALL PARTIES, and been supported. Point is Dave is a black belt, he will get better with time as that belt, and his pa*sion to continue and pa*s his knowledge to others will make the state grow even more. What one or two people think is a black belt, might not be what another person thinks is a black belt. In my opinion we should all be supportive, helpful, and generous. If people dont think Dave is a black belt, thats their opinion, cool! No problem. But dont diss the guy on a public forum, lead alone a Wisconsin forum that thousands of people read. That isnt cool. If anything if you dont think he is a BB then go train with him and help make him better. All WI brown and black belts should all be training with each other, pushing each other, doing seminars for each other, going to open mats and pushing to make each one a GREAT BB! Just my opinion. FG p.s. I hope the day that Justin Morris, Bill Kriegs, Jon Hinds, Mark Severtson, Omar, Justin Hutter, others around the state, and even myself are given much more courtesy than what was shown towards Dave. Nothing but congrats should have been said on this thread. Oh well. Best wishes to all. Train hard and everybody will be a black belt someday in the next 10 years |
BACON
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WTF This whole thing is dumb. Yes this guy is being disrespectful. I think if ringannouncer does not think he deserve his black belt then let the two of them go at it and we all get to see. What happened to the old ways? If I get on here and say Red does not deserve his black belt-how long before he and I would be going at it again? All I see is a whole lot of shit talking. If I was Brian Davis I would be calling some of you out for insulting me and the whole GB system. If you are going to say where people are going to be ranked you should out rank them yourself or be able to out grapple them. P.S. That shit about painting your chest was funny. |
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